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Interviews

Every night when Daddy gets home from work, Olivia gives him a big hug and knows that the evening will be full of love—and fun. But every morning when Daddy goes to work, Olivia worries, worries, worries. Be safe, she and Momma tell him. But what if he isn’t? Sometimes other people aren’t, like the people Olivia sees on the news.



Max's Boat Pick



FOREVER AND ALWAYS

By Brittany J. Thurman and Shamar Knight-Justice

Publisher: Greenwillow Books (January 16, 2024)


Thanks for coming onboard again, Brittany! Can you share how Forever and Always come about? 

BJT: "I don’t remember writing the first draft of Forever and Always, but I do remember the situations happening when this story and Olivia’s voice popped into my head. In 2018, Antwon Rose, Jr was a young Black Pittsburgh teen who lost his life at the hands of law enforcement. I remember the marches, protests, and hurt that stayed on the faces of his loved ones. Around this time, more injustices occurred across the country, and I felt so unsettled. Many questions erupted in my mind. What is safety? How does this continue to happen? What does it mean to be secure and who gets that right? We should all be able to return home to those we love.

 

I began to write draft after draft, until the book sold. During the time of revision between 2020-2021, more people were taken from this Earth who should still be here. Their stories became a part of this story.

 

While the initial idea of Forever and Always revolved around these issues, I also thought of how unpredictable our world is. Safety can mean so many things to so many people, no matter where we are. Olivia’s voice came first. Her words and story fueled my mind as if she were standing right beside me. I vividly saw and heard her love for her father, like the love so many kids around this world have for theirs. I think that Forever and Always is a story that has always been with me. As a child who dealt with anxiety and worry, perhaps Olivia has been in my mind for decades, just waiting to be set free."

 

There's a page in your book where the Momma sees a picture of a man on her phone "who looks like Daddy, sounds like Daddy, could be Daddy," but did not make it home. What did YOU mean by that, and what do you think young readers will take away from it? "With news and information at our fingertips, in seconds we become aware of what is occurring around us, whether it is in our cities, or countries away. I wrote those words after the murder of George Floyd at the hands of law enforcement. I knew that if my safety and security felt shaken after this tragedy, then children must have had similar feelings, too. As George Floyd called for his mother, the sound of that yearning could have so easily been another father, uncle, brother, mother, sister, aunt… the list goes on. 

 

As a child, I worried about so much, especially for those around me. If too much time passed between a loved one leaving the house and the time they were supposed to come home, I panicked. We have a right to safety and security, whether we are inside our homes or not. I want kids to know they are not alone in their feelings and while worry often comes along with waiting, so does hope."


 




For those who love Forever and Always, what would you also suggest? There are many books that I would pair with Forever and Always, but two that stick out are Me & Mama by Cozbi A. Cabrera and Daddy Speaks Love by Leah Henderson and E.B. Lewis. Both books contain wonderful protagonists and the parents they love. The young child in Me and Mama notices all the things her mother does and how the two are similar.











In Daddy Speaks Love, the story revolves around the daughter/father bond and all the ways he brings joy."

 

 






On the topic of daugther/father bonds, I love the way you portrayed Olivia's bond with her father—especially with the dancing scene. And of course I was curious—what sort of "old school" music were you envisioning Olivia and Daddy dancing to? "My grandmother has a record player full of albums. These artists and songs played over holiday dinners, or on the radio along road trips. I envision Olivia and Daddy dancing to the musical artists who have held influence over rhythm, blues, and jazz and whose music ignites our souls, drawing us closer to each other. Those artists and their songs are Tina Turner ('The Best'), Stevie Wonder ('Isn’t She Lovely'), and Bill Withers ('Lovely Day')."

 

“Then I look at you

And the world's alright with me

Just one look at you

And I know it's gonna be

A lovely day”

—Bill Withers, "Lovely Day"


What's next for you? "I am excited for the fourth book in the Fearless series by Mandy Gonzalez to come out on April 2nd, 2024. It was a joy to co-write Fearless: Boulevard of Dreams, which was published in 2022. The fourth book, Fearless: The Takeover follows a young Broadway star who realizes that there is so much more to life besides social media after her online platforms are hacked.

 

Then, in 2025, I will have several titles to hit shelves. Come Catch a Dream, illustrated by Islenia Mil, follows a young boy named Remi whose only dream is to spin on ice. I loved to ice skate when I was a child, but I could never get those twirls right. Come Catch a Dream was inspired by this former passion and a quote from one of my favorite poets, Georgia Douglas Johnson: 'The right to make my dreams come true, I ask, nay, I demand of life.'

 

In the winter of 2025, my first non-fiction picture book will debut. The First Library: The True Story of the First Library by and For Black America is illustrated by Cozbi A. Cabrera and tells of the Western Branch Library, located in my hometown of Louisville, Kentucky. Created out of the need to have a library of their own in the early 1900s, this branch became the first in the country run by Black America and created for the Black community. The librarians of this location, without formal training in library science, inspired the establishment of branches for Black communities across the country."



You have so many books in the pipeline! I'm truly in awe. What new and forthcoming books are you most excited about?


Elijah’s Easter Suit by Brentom Jackson and Emmanuel Boateng

 

"As a kid, I vividly remember how special Easter was to my family. It was a treat to pick out an Easter dress, shoes, and to get my hair styled. I am excited about Elijah’s Easter Suit, which is described as, ‘In a story full of style, sass, and significance, a young boy goes on a quest for the perfect Easter church outfit, inspired by elders from his community…’"






Sydney’s Big Speech by Malcolm Newsome and Jade Orlando

 

"In Sydney’s Big Speech, young Sydney is reluctant to speak up in class. Deemed as shy, Sydney is inspired by Black women leaders, knowing that she too can give a great speech. As a person who was labeled shy when I was a kid, and as an adult who enjoys thinking a lot more than talking, I am excited to meet Sydney and for kids to be inspired by her newfound confidence."

 

 




What's on your list of 100 best picture books of all time? "I think this book is on everyone’s list and it is always at the top of mine. The Snowy Day by Ezra Jack Keats. I used to read this story to preschoolers each winter. I made felt pieces to accompany the characters and setting. Once we finished reading, we would retell the story through the felt pieces. Peter is a timeless character that so many can relate to today. Just as it was vastly important for Black kids to see themselves in books as children full of joy when The Snowy Day came out in 1962, it is equally important for that same joyful representation today. Go Peter!"

Saturday is for harvesting. And one little boy is excited to work alongside his Papa as they collect eggs, plums, peppers and pumpkins to sell at their stand in the farmers' market. Of course, it's more than a farmers' market. Papa knows each customer's order, from Ms. Rosa's pumpkins to Mr. Johnny's peppers. And when Papa can't make it to the stand, his community gathers around him, with dishes made of his own produce.



Max's Boat Pick


THE LAST STAND

Written by Antwan Eady illustrated by Jarrett Pumphrey & Jerome Pumphrey

Publisher: Knopf Books for Young Readers (January 30, 2024)

Buy now & Watch a making-of video of The Last Stand


Welcome back to Max's Boat! Thank you so much for visiting again. And for the site's first ever three-person interview! Antwan, can you tell me what inspired The Last Stand? AE: "I love this question because it's a moment of reflection for me. I knew I wanted to honor farmers through story. I didn't know the shape of the story or when I'd tell it, but it was always on my mind. The Last Stand was described as 'both an ode to and a eulogy' for American farms, specifically Black American farms and farmers I grew up with, and this is true. I wanted to honor farmers I've known, farmers I know, and farmers I hope to meet one day. In 2020, our world shifted. There were supply chain issues and food shortages. Like so many essential workers, we relied on our farmers even more. And they delivered! So this is my way of honoring their work/commitment, especially during unprecedented times. This is my way of saying, 'I see you. And I thank you.' It's also my way of letting young dreamers know that it's aspirational to dream of becoming a farmer. So, that year, I searched my notes app for the idea about farmers I had, and I began drafting the story. Around Thanksgiving that year, I workshopped it with a friend and went back to the drawing board. It sold in a 9-house auction February '21. Now, here we are!"


What do you think the Pumphrey Brothers brought to the book that perhaps wasn't originally there?

AE: "In a starred review from Kirkus, they wrote, 'The Pumphreys' bold, stunning artwork, created with digitally edited handmade stamps, perfectly captures the pace of hot summer days in the rural South, the joy of growing produce for others, and the sadness of losing these important sources of nutritious food and community.' Readers wouldn't have gathered all of that from the text.. not without knowing my 'why' beforehand. So, in many ways, I began a story that the Pumphrey Brothers completed. 


Textually, there's a story about a boy, his grandfather and their stand at the farmers' market a.k.a the last stand. Visually, the Pumphrey Brothers offered more to the story in the background of many spreads. There, in the background, we learn more about Papa, we learn more about Grandma and their community, and on the very last page, they leave us with something even more divine, and that's hope. Hope for a community and the world in which that community exists. Even more, what you'll see on that last page is personally connected to the Pumphrey Brothers and that makes it even more special. Oh and the case! I encourage all readers to remove the case cover for an amazzzing reveal."


Jarrett and Jerome, The Last Stand very much brought to mind, for me at least, The Old Truck. Did you feel that as well upon reading the text, as if there was an intrinsic kinship between the two books?

TPB: "We certainly felt connected to Antwan’s text. We have our own personal connection to farming, but also family, community, hardship, and perseverance. Antwan’s beautiful story touches on themes we tend to explore in all our work. There are so many reasons we were thrilled we got to make this book with him."

 

How did you approach the artwork for The Last Stand? Are there any visual through lines between the two books? Or did you very consciously try to make distinctions, such as having Papa’s truck blue instead of red? TPB: "We took care to make sure The Last Stand was its own book. Antwan described Papa’s truck as blue in his text, so we didn’t have to worry about that, but we did consciously choose to go with a classic square body this time. The only reference we make to The Old Truck is an indirect one at the end. And it’s more for us than anyone else. The Irene of Irene’s Watermelons, the second stand at the farmers’ market, is our great-grandmother. She was a farmer and one of the women who inspired the female farmer in The Old Truck."


Sketches and their corresponding final spreads by the Pumphrey Brothers for The Last Stand (below):









What contemporary picture books do you hope will become the classics of the future?

AE: "Love this question! Off the top of my head, here are a few that instantly come to mind...books that I've sat with, revisited, and studied.






















Drawn Together by Minh Lê and Dan Santat













I Talk Like a River by Jordan Scott and Sydney Smith













The Day You Begin by Jacqueline Woodson and Rafael López



























Watercress by Andrea Wang and Jason Chin.










A recent book that I love, and I’m certain I’ll study one day, is Soul Food Sunday by Winsome Bingham and C.G. Esperanza."






TPB: "It’s a great time for picture books. Some contemporary books sure to be long-term favorites:








A Sick Day for Amos McGee by Philip C. Stead and Erin E. Stead














Crown by Derrick Barnes and Gordon C. James

















Pokko and the Drum by Matthew Forsythe

















The Book of Mistakes by Corinna Luyken














The Undefeated by Kwame Alexander and Kadir Nelson."


Back in the day, there was a heckuva party, a jam, for a word-making man. The King of Letters. Langston Hughes. His ABCs became drums, bumping jumping thumping like a heart the size of the whole country. They sent some people yelling and others, his word-children, to write their own glory.



Max's Boat Pick


THERE WAS A PARTY FOR LANGSTON

Written by Jason Reynolds and illustrated by Jerome Pumphrey & Jarrett Pumphrey

Publisher: Atheneum/Caitlyn Dlouhy Books (October 3, 2023)


Congratulations on receiving both the Caldecott Honor and the Coretta Scott King Illustrator Honor! There Was a Party for Langston is such a joyous, exuberant, beautiful ode to Langston Hughes (as well as other word-maker greats Maya Angelou, Amiri Baraka, Zora Neale Hurston, James Baldwin—the list goes on). And Jason Reynolds’s text—wow. How did you two get involved with the project and what was the process like? The Pumphrey Brothers: "Thank you, Ratha! Yeah, Jason’s text is amazing, isn’t it? He’s a master at what he does. That’s why we knew before we even read the text that we were in. Jason Reynolds comes knocking, you answer the door and invite him in. We knew whatever the project was, we couldn’t pass it up. It was only after reading the text and learning the subject matter that we really knew just how significant the project would be. Not only did we have Jason to impress, but we also had to do right by Langston Hughes and Maya Angelou and Amiri Baraka. Oh, man. Talk about pressure!


Hand-made stamp by The Pumphrey Brothers for the cover of There Was a Party for Langston (above)


This was one of the most challenging projects we’ve had so far. Some of that was self-imposed—see above, lol—but also, for one, this was our first time illustrating a text we hadn’t written ourselves, and two, how in the world are you supposed to illustrate a text that conjures so many images all on its own? Usually, we know exactly where the space in the text is for the illustrations because we’re the ones who left it there. With this one, it took us a minute to find it. Thankfully, we had two amazing guides to light the way as we worked through it—editor Caitlyn Dlouhy and art director Sonia Chaghatzbanian. They knew what this book could ultimately be long before we figured it out and without their infectious joy, unwavering faith, and critical eyes, we wouldn’t have ended up where we did." 


Using Langston’s words as art--how did that idea come about?

TPB: "We knew almost immediately after reading Jason’s text that we’d want to incorporate excerpts from Langston’s work in the art. We didn’t know exactly how we’d do it until our second pass. 


In our first pass, we incorporated Langston excerpts in these sort of river-like streams that flowed from one spread to the next. It was supposed to be a nod to Langston’s poem The Negro Speaks of Rivers and also, in turn, a nod to the cosmogram that’s on the floor of the Schomburg, which also references that poem. It’s the very cosmogram under which Langston Hughes’s ashes are buried, the one Maya and Amiri were photographed dancing on in his honor. We thought it could be a cool sort of full-circle idea so we found all the poems we thought Jason was referencing in his text (because he didn’t include any notes) and then pulled excerpts to create these rivers of words flowing from spread to spread. In the end, as cool as the idea sounded initially, it turned out to just be okay. It wasn’t bad, but it wasn’t quite right. We actually ended up scrapping all but one spread from that first pass. And that’s the one spread that gave us the clue as to what might be the right way to do it.


The 'Harlem' spread, the one with 'Harlem' spelled out in the lights of the windows, was the only spread to make it out of round 1. It was the one Caitlyn and Sonia were most excited by. It was fun and playful. And it unlocked something for us. After thinking about it a bit, it kinda struck us like a bolt of lightning. 'Jason calls Langston a word maker. What if we just make stuff out of Langston’s words? WE COULD JUST MAKE STUFF OUT OF LANGSTON’S WORDS!' Looking back, it’s kind of like duh, but it was not at all obvious to us then. From there we just started iterating and things began to fall into place. We’d come up with a fun idea for a spread, send it over to Caitlyn and Sonia, and we’d know just how well we nailed it by the amount of ALL-CAPS and exclamation points we’d get back in the reply."



Hand-made stamp by The Pumphrey Brothers of Maya Angelou and Amiri Baraka (above) along with the corresponding spread in There Was a Party for Langston (below):




Hand-made stamp by The Pumphrey Brothers of Martin Luther King Jr. (above) along with the corresponding spread in There Was a Party for Langston (below):





What would be on your list of 100 best picture books of all time? TPB: "There are so many books we love for so many different reasons, so many books that are the best at what they do, that this sort of question is always a hard one to answer. Apart from all the books we’ve already mentioned, here’s a list of some we think are the best at something that we always keep close to hand:









I Want My Hat Back by Jon Klassen
























Du Iz Tak? by Carson Ellis













They All Saw a Cat by Brendan Wenzel












A Polar Bear in the Snow by Mac Barnett and Shawn Harris














Last Stop on Market Street by Matt de la Peña and Christian Robinson













Layla’s Happiness by Mariahadessa Ekere Tallie and Ashleigh Corrin














Freight Train by Donald Crews











The Ranger by Nancy Vo












Shh! We Have a Plan by Chris Haughton

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